Wow! Great column. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. So much to unpack. I think I may need to write multiple comments to express my ideas on this.
On forgiveness, I think forgiveness is the gift we give ourselves. It allows us to free ourselves from hate, regret, and self pity. It is a shared cleansing of pain between people. Without it, anger and fear fester and dominate our thoughts and actions. I believe that forgiveness is the core teaching of Jesus and it is the most overlooked and misunderstood.
If you have watched the show "Ted Lasso" you know what this is about. The show is not about soccer but about love, kindness, and forgiveness leading and triumphing. My favorite scene is at the end of season 1. During the first season, Rebecca, the owner of the team, has been scheming to destroy the team and Ted. She has been emotionally mortally wounded by her ex-husband and in an act desperation self-immolation she confesses all to Ted. I will let the scene speak for itself. It is a scene that would not have played this way on any other show. It broke me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhf5QSc0oZI
Lol, my father was very forgiving: he knew it upset many of those who wronged him! 😉 His advice to me was "the best revenge is for them to learn what they did doesn't matter to me".
But for people who had genuine remorse, he offered forgiveness freely and generously.
I borrowed money from him once, and took awhile to repay it. He never brought it up. I eventually repaid him and he responded "I'd forgotten about it". He hadn't, but that desire not to have the debt forgiven made me want to repay it. He treated me to ice cream that day.
Thank you for an excellent and thought-provoking column. Although I never articulated it before, I suppose I am a Catholic agnostic - I attend services and participate in the community, but am in perpetual doubt about Jesus' divinity. The thinking usually goes - was Jesus God's son in the divine sense, or in the sense that we are all God's children? And at the end of the day does it really matter? It doesn't change the worth of his teachings.
One other observation - I don't think you can viscerally understand the concept of unconditional forgiveness until you have children of your own. That's why I think the breakdown of the traditional family and the lessening of faith in America go hand in hand.
Love your nuanced view. As one who's moved fully into the atheism camp, I love to hear alternate takes. What I destest are those who say I have to believe like them because their god told them they were right. Let's live and let live, it's not that hard, and takes far less energy overall.
For most of my 70 years I have thought how great it would be if everyone believed in and more importantly practiced in their lives Jesus teachings, despite having doubts about so much of religious instruction and what we read in the Bible. I have never heard of Christian Agnostics until today and now know what I am! I have been thinking lately about all the complaints about people and organizations being too woke and thought to myself that the most woke person in the history of the world was Jesus. Yes, you can call me woke all you want and I will say thank you.
Gregg, what I like most about your writing is that you make me (and others) think. I believe that there is a God, but that he doesn’t control us on earth. He gives us choices - it’s up to us to make the right ones. I believe that Jesus was his son and that his purpose was to teach us and forgive us of the sins that we as humans commit ... and hopefully through following Him, we commit fewer sins. I don’t believe that people who don’t believe as I do are necessarily wrong or doomed to a terrible afterlife. Great column and great points made. Oh ... and dittos to George Walk’s comment on “Ted Lasso”!
12 years in catholic schools pushed me so far away from religion that I don't even care anymore. "I don't care" is a weird answer to the "is there a god?" question...because if the christian god is real, geez...I want nothing to do with him/her/them.
Interesting take on the six commandments, have never heard anyone teach the Rich Young Ruler that way. A counterpoint I’d like to propose: in Matthew 19 it does read as if Jesus tells the man to keep those six; however, in Mark 10 and Luke 18 Jesus tells the rich young ruler, “You know the commandments.” Meaning Jesus wasn’t telling him only keep these six, rather he listed several as this man no doubt knew all of the commandments extremely well and in his mind had been keeping them all since his youth. Jesus was pretty clear that he didn’t come to abolish any of the Law or Prophets, he said so in Matthew 5:17, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” In fact, Jesus gave a pretty strict warning to anyone who tries to downplay any of the commandments in the following verse (Matthew 5:19), “Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” Jesus summarized the Law and Prophets for us with the golden rule (Matthew 7:12) and summarized the 10 commandments with the greatest commandment (Matthew 22:37-40). In all of this Jesus is teaching us the right thing to do sure, but really is just exposing the fact that none of us is good as no one can come close to loving God with heart, soul, and mind or loving our neighbor as ourself. The Law is meant to reflect our true nature which is that we’re sinful and in need of a Savior, no amount of keeping the Law will help us on judgment day since we’ve all already broken the Law over and over again.
Alcoholics Anonymous embraces the concept of theistic agnosticism. AA members are encouraged to accept a higher power without necessarily being able to articulate what that higher power is . . . other than that it isn't him or her. AA (kinda sorta) requires a belief in a higher power, but an early chapter of the AA "Big Book" is called "We Agnostics" and explains how agnostic members can, nevertheless, embrace a higher power and live according to the precepts thereof.
Learning more about the Jewish roots of Christianity, especially the way in which the Torah is interpreted that differs from the way many Christian churches interpret the Old Testament, I think is essential for anyone who wants to explore the Christian faith. One notable difference between the two, is the spotlight on Jacob's wrestling match with God, his renaming as Israel and the long-standing Jewish tradition that "struggling" with God is not blasphemous, but the point. If you are totally certain in your beliefs and in what God, or Jesus or Mohammad or whomever wants you to do at any given moment, then you're missing the message conveyed in that story. It's almost telling all of us to be (insert Western religion here)-agnostic.
I love this--it echoes my own beliefs, although I'm firmly atheistic. I do find a great deal of value in Yeshua's moral teachings, and I am disheartened by how they are frequently twisted or ignored by his supposed followers. I strike a clear line of delineation between a historical figure, Yeshua, and the construct born in Nicaea of Iesus. Having missed a number of your columns, wondering what ever happened to TMQ, I didn't get this one when it came out--I found your substack only recently (for this football season). Upon reconnecting, I found myself wondering, "What the hell does he mean by Christian Agnostic." This was beautifully written.
Thanks Gregg, for another thoughtful and generous piece. And for the book recommendations.
I’ve always found atheism to be comforting because it gave all of the glory, responsibility, and wonder to humans without any other influences. Like existentialism with a positive spin. It allows me to celebrate the many, many incredible achievements of humanity and to seek to understand their flaws without any divine explanation or recourse.
Like you, I would love all of the followers of Jesus to actually act as he prescribes. And, like you, I believe in having a moral center, whatever its source is.
I really enjoyed the column, although I am not sure agnostic is correct here. Many interpretations of the Torah and the early books of the tanakh state that it is a moral book. It is not a geographical, biological or historical book, but we need to learn the moral lessons and how to behave in a good way. For example the creation shows us how to treat the earth and not that we were created. This solves the so called religion/science problem because there is no disparity. But these interpreters are Jewish and not agnostic. Taking the myth and learning the deeper meaning is not agnostic in my opinion. Regarding forgiving this is from Lord Dr. rabbi Sacks ( RIP): https://www.rabbisacks.org/covenant-conversation/vayigash/the-birth-of-forgiveness/
Thank you for this wonderful article. I think sometimes, as a whole, we don't question enough our own take on this very important thought: Do you believe in life after death or do you not? If you don't, then all of the rituals, prayers, worship - it's just wasted time and worry over nothing. If you believe that the Soul and Spirit carry on, then you can choose what avenue or avenues available to you to reinforce that belief in your own way. Personally, as a Spiritualist, I do believe we carry on, and that was inherently known since ancient times, interpreted and massaged for millennia by many cultures and societies. Living beyond death does not necessarily mean a single, all-powerful god exists, but rather it could be that it is the natural way of life and that we are reborn into another level of existence. One thing I want to add - keep an open mind, and be ready for the next adventure. Don't be shocked, once you pass over, that another wonderful and glorious world awaits you.
Very interesting read. One critique - I think you are minimizing or downplaying the amount of war and immense human suffering and pain directly caused by religion.
A great column! I find myself similar to you (I grew up fundamentalism but attend Catholic services with my wife) and would probably call myself agnostic - even if that's been called a cowards viewpoint 🤷♂️
Wow! Great column. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. So much to unpack. I think I may need to write multiple comments to express my ideas on this.
On forgiveness, I think forgiveness is the gift we give ourselves. It allows us to free ourselves from hate, regret, and self pity. It is a shared cleansing of pain between people. Without it, anger and fear fester and dominate our thoughts and actions. I believe that forgiveness is the core teaching of Jesus and it is the most overlooked and misunderstood.
If you have watched the show "Ted Lasso" you know what this is about. The show is not about soccer but about love, kindness, and forgiveness leading and triumphing. My favorite scene is at the end of season 1. During the first season, Rebecca, the owner of the team, has been scheming to destroy the team and Ted. She has been emotionally mortally wounded by her ex-husband and in an act desperation self-immolation she confesses all to Ted. I will let the scene speak for itself. It is a scene that would not have played this way on any other show. It broke me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhf5QSc0oZI
Merry Christmas and Happy Festivus!
Lol, my father was very forgiving: he knew it upset many of those who wronged him! 😉 His advice to me was "the best revenge is for them to learn what they did doesn't matter to me".
But for people who had genuine remorse, he offered forgiveness freely and generously.
I borrowed money from him once, and took awhile to repay it. He never brought it up. I eventually repaid him and he responded "I'd forgotten about it". He hadn't, but that desire not to have the debt forgiven made me want to repay it. He treated me to ice cream that day.
and gave you a great memory in the process
Thank you for an excellent and thought-provoking column. Although I never articulated it before, I suppose I am a Catholic agnostic - I attend services and participate in the community, but am in perpetual doubt about Jesus' divinity. The thinking usually goes - was Jesus God's son in the divine sense, or in the sense that we are all God's children? And at the end of the day does it really matter? It doesn't change the worth of his teachings.
One other observation - I don't think you can viscerally understand the concept of unconditional forgiveness until you have children of your own. That's why I think the breakdown of the traditional family and the lessening of faith in America go hand in hand.
And I still wish Midnight Mass weren't at 10 p.m.
Merry Christmas.
Love your nuanced view. As one who's moved fully into the atheism camp, I love to hear alternate takes. What I destest are those who say I have to believe like them because their god told them they were right. Let's live and let live, it's not that hard, and takes far less energy overall.
Thank you for sharing such personal beliefs.
In my opinion, one of Agnosticism’s greatest assets is the humility it requires to say, “I don’t know; I’m not sure.”
This type of uncertainty is unpopular in a world consumed by strident partisanship and hyper-specific QB ratings.
Thank you, Mr Easterbrook.
I am doing what I can about the QB rankings! And thanks
For most of my 70 years I have thought how great it would be if everyone believed in and more importantly practiced in their lives Jesus teachings, despite having doubts about so much of religious instruction and what we read in the Bible. I have never heard of Christian Agnostics until today and now know what I am! I have been thinking lately about all the complaints about people and organizations being too woke and thought to myself that the most woke person in the history of the world was Jesus. Yes, you can call me woke all you want and I will say thank you.
Gregg, what I like most about your writing is that you make me (and others) think. I believe that there is a God, but that he doesn’t control us on earth. He gives us choices - it’s up to us to make the right ones. I believe that Jesus was his son and that his purpose was to teach us and forgive us of the sins that we as humans commit ... and hopefully through following Him, we commit fewer sins. I don’t believe that people who don’t believe as I do are necessarily wrong or doomed to a terrible afterlife. Great column and great points made. Oh ... and dittos to George Walk’s comment on “Ted Lasso”!
Thanks for the kind words
12 years in catholic schools pushed me so far away from religion that I don't even care anymore. "I don't care" is a weird answer to the "is there a god?" question...because if the christian god is real, geez...I want nothing to do with him/her/them.
Interesting take on the six commandments, have never heard anyone teach the Rich Young Ruler that way. A counterpoint I’d like to propose: in Matthew 19 it does read as if Jesus tells the man to keep those six; however, in Mark 10 and Luke 18 Jesus tells the rich young ruler, “You know the commandments.” Meaning Jesus wasn’t telling him only keep these six, rather he listed several as this man no doubt knew all of the commandments extremely well and in his mind had been keeping them all since his youth. Jesus was pretty clear that he didn’t come to abolish any of the Law or Prophets, he said so in Matthew 5:17, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” In fact, Jesus gave a pretty strict warning to anyone who tries to downplay any of the commandments in the following verse (Matthew 5:19), “Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” Jesus summarized the Law and Prophets for us with the golden rule (Matthew 7:12) and summarized the 10 commandments with the greatest commandment (Matthew 22:37-40). In all of this Jesus is teaching us the right thing to do sure, but really is just exposing the fact that none of us is good as no one can come close to loving God with heart, soul, and mind or loving our neighbor as ourself. The Law is meant to reflect our true nature which is that we’re sinful and in need of a Savior, no amount of keeping the Law will help us on judgment day since we’ve all already broken the Law over and over again.
Alcoholics Anonymous embraces the concept of theistic agnosticism. AA members are encouraged to accept a higher power without necessarily being able to articulate what that higher power is . . . other than that it isn't him or her. AA (kinda sorta) requires a belief in a higher power, but an early chapter of the AA "Big Book" is called "We Agnostics" and explains how agnostic members can, nevertheless, embrace a higher power and live according to the precepts thereof.
I took to the AA approach when I was young and tagging along with my dad to meetings.
Learning more about the Jewish roots of Christianity, especially the way in which the Torah is interpreted that differs from the way many Christian churches interpret the Old Testament, I think is essential for anyone who wants to explore the Christian faith. One notable difference between the two, is the spotlight on Jacob's wrestling match with God, his renaming as Israel and the long-standing Jewish tradition that "struggling" with God is not blasphemous, but the point. If you are totally certain in your beliefs and in what God, or Jesus or Mohammad or whomever wants you to do at any given moment, then you're missing the message conveyed in that story. It's almost telling all of us to be (insert Western religion here)-agnostic.
That’s a great point
I love this--it echoes my own beliefs, although I'm firmly atheistic. I do find a great deal of value in Yeshua's moral teachings, and I am disheartened by how they are frequently twisted or ignored by his supposed followers. I strike a clear line of delineation between a historical figure, Yeshua, and the construct born in Nicaea of Iesus. Having missed a number of your columns, wondering what ever happened to TMQ, I didn't get this one when it came out--I found your substack only recently (for this football season). Upon reconnecting, I found myself wondering, "What the hell does he mean by Christian Agnostic." This was beautifully written.
Thanks Gregg, for another thoughtful and generous piece. And for the book recommendations.
I’ve always found atheism to be comforting because it gave all of the glory, responsibility, and wonder to humans without any other influences. Like existentialism with a positive spin. It allows me to celebrate the many, many incredible achievements of humanity and to seek to understand their flaws without any divine explanation or recourse.
Like you, I would love all of the followers of Jesus to actually act as he prescribes. And, like you, I believe in having a moral center, whatever its source is.
Merry Christmas Eve, when goodness is rung in!
I really enjoyed the column, although I am not sure agnostic is correct here. Many interpretations of the Torah and the early books of the tanakh state that it is a moral book. It is not a geographical, biological or historical book, but we need to learn the moral lessons and how to behave in a good way. For example the creation shows us how to treat the earth and not that we were created. This solves the so called religion/science problem because there is no disparity. But these interpreters are Jewish and not agnostic. Taking the myth and learning the deeper meaning is not agnostic in my opinion. Regarding forgiving this is from Lord Dr. rabbi Sacks ( RIP): https://www.rabbisacks.org/covenant-conversation/vayigash/the-birth-of-forgiveness/
Thank you for this wonderful article. I think sometimes, as a whole, we don't question enough our own take on this very important thought: Do you believe in life after death or do you not? If you don't, then all of the rituals, prayers, worship - it's just wasted time and worry over nothing. If you believe that the Soul and Spirit carry on, then you can choose what avenue or avenues available to you to reinforce that belief in your own way. Personally, as a Spiritualist, I do believe we carry on, and that was inherently known since ancient times, interpreted and massaged for millennia by many cultures and societies. Living beyond death does not necessarily mean a single, all-powerful god exists, but rather it could be that it is the natural way of life and that we are reborn into another level of existence. One thing I want to add - keep an open mind, and be ready for the next adventure. Don't be shocked, once you pass over, that another wonderful and glorious world awaits you.
Very interesting read. One critique - I think you are minimizing or downplaying the amount of war and immense human suffering and pain directly caused by religion.
A great column! I find myself similar to you (I grew up fundamentalism but attend Catholic services with my wife) and would probably call myself agnostic - even if that's been called a cowards viewpoint 🤷♂️